These Messages are like food for the soul. (This link is for how to joinits freehttp://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it). @3221: Lennons letter was not just a simple warning. It follows the precise form of an official condemnation under the Churchs tradition of discerning alleged private revelations. Mother Teresa replied that, if their kneeling was a problem, they would leave the diocese. Be cautious of what you share about others, knowing that love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8), which means it doesn't highlight or gossip about the failings of others. You also are so obsessed with Church law that you are missing what the Church is suffering.. Again, I learned this from Aquinas, The Church is where the true Faith is. We now live in a world where Catholic Bishops and Priests rarely if ever publicly condemn sin. You may enjoy this one: http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/. For that, I am very grateful. However, once the Church has condemned a site and declared it off limits to clergy and laity, its a different ball game. Thanks for this information. You, 3221, say there is nothing against the Faith at HLM. 3221, back up and read what you just wrote. That is why we have the Church, so that we dont get led astray by what looks good on the surface. Come, Lord Jesus! Miss Tess, Lennons letter said the Holy See was consulted on this matter. Here are just a few of the more glaring examples, along with the dates they were stated so you can read them in full. ( I keep asking the following question but I never get an answer from the scoffers who write here: If your bishop tells you that the Holy Eucharist is only God during Mass, so disregard the Sacred Species otherwise, will you do so so that you can feel truly obedient?) He has a way with His Church. This is why Bishop Lennon cannot excommunicate those Catholics who find spiritual sustenance at HLM. My reaction to that would of course be disagreement for what should be the obvious reason that a statement such as that is completely contradictory to Church teaching through the millenia, and can be looked up easily by opening ones Catechism, or childs Catechism, for that matter. Further, no one can or should dictate against Heavens intervention here. I cant and because of this I will continue to pray the Rosary, spread it, follow the messages, go to Mass, go to confession and adoration as much as I can. and this is a later explanation for something that doesnt logically make sense to begin with. St.Paul tells us, I make up in my body what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. We are called through our sufferings UNITED TO JESUS- to help Him redeem the world. There have been many examples of dishonesty and foolishness in the messages. Guard me against all evil. Three bishops have approved of it. Just knowing or reading these Commandments is not enough - you must internalize them and all they dictate in their simplicity. At Holy Love Ministries, it is reported that Jesus sometimes comes with Mary during her apparitions. Well, Ive gopt a question: Regarding the bishops we are supposed to obey: how many of them have concealed pedophile priests? I do not think in those terms, and so my use of the word was totally innocent.. When has Jesus rejected His own authority that of the Catholic Church? I pray for friends of mine that also are addicted to the place and see nothing odd, no internal warnings at all, let alone disobeying the Bishop. God bless you denis. As I searched the Code (and the Pastoral Companion to the Code), I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how it might be listed. A lot of Saints also give teachings. I will say that HLM has saved themselves much wrangling by becoming ecumenical. My story is quite unusual, perhaps. In November of 2006, I wrote an article for Catholic exchange exposing the Holy Love site. Did the early Chistians refuse to believe in Jesus because the local religious authorities objected? When will we learn to listen and obey the Holy Spirit??? Therefore, a, Superior is not to be obeyed in all things. They are bound to follow the dictates of the Church.and they cannot condemn what is not able to be condemned according to Church Law. If the bishop were to state that no credibility can be given to HLM messages, he would, in effect, be disavowing the teachings of the Catholic Faith, as the messages of HLM ARE those deep and ancient truths of Catholicism. I think that you are referring to when I quoted St. Catherine of Sienas Dialogues wherein God the Father tells her to keep her spiritual life between Him and growing in self knowledge. The question now is, will those that were enthralled with this Shrine, accept Church authority or continue to follow a ministry that has officially been condemned? You wont be asking that question. As a suggestion for you to decide for yourselves on? The faithful have been admonished not to go to HLM. If the local bishop, after investigating, finds nothing supernatural, he will issue a decree of constat de non supernaturalitate(the supernatural is not established) to help warn and protect the faithful. 3221, if you do not see this, there is no purpose in further communicating with me on this matter. Do you lack the intellectual honesty or courage to allow a free debate or are you just an activist journalist pushing an agenda? He says that it is our blind spots that harbor spiritual attacks and reminds us of Scriptures warning: Be sober, be watchful. This place teaches nothing but how to lead souls to salvation. Speaking of which, werent you just commenting on being judgmental since people dont know what is in their hearts? The condescending judgments made by those in this correspondence who deride HLM are very pronounced. The relevancy of the full doctrine of the Catholic Faith being taught at HLM is most relevant to the deplorable catechesis that has gone on in this country for 40 years due to poor and, in some cases, nonexistent teaching by the bishops.. That you state that HLM messages are irrelevant to the topic again shows your blind obtuseness to the truth. Because it was personal though, I translated it into my already laid out plan for my life. I am proving, however, that we should never say never . At Holy Love Ministries the lay faithful have an opportunity to learn the depth mystical theology of Catholicism in all its rich and pristine clarity,as well as in its orthodox consistency, but Bishop Lennon expects obedience simple because he is the bishop. Good Lord, you need to fall on your knees in front of the Blessed Sacrament in a church or chapel far away from that place and pray for His grace to extricate you from the snares of the devil. It is a gossip piece such as you read about movie stars. If I believed Bishop Lennon is a corrupt bishop I would have said so. By giving their disappointment to God and continuing to walk with him, they acknowledge that his Church is bigger than a single ministry or the claims of any purported visionary. The person who wrote you quoted several canons about the rights of the faithful, but has ignored canon 223 which speaks of taking into account the common good of the Church and the obligation of ecclesiastical authority, in view of the common good, to regulate the exercise of the rights of the faithful. I read up on them before responding to your criticism. At any rate, when a bishop disapproves of an appartition and warns his flock, they are free to heed the warning or leave it. She asked little Jacinta at Fatima, Do you want to HELP ME save sinners? Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision or apparition (there are others such as self-promotion, pride and profitting). Who gave you this talking point? I suffer for what comes to you. Why are Priests, Bishops, Arch Bishops, Cardinals, Nuns, Brothers, Christians, children, etc. God calls ALL people to repentance and conversion. In fact, sometimes Ive thought about writing my own book about how disastrous my visit to Conyers became to my own personal faith journal. These are my answers to your points about which you claim that HLM is in error. (meaning every wrong that has been done to you). He was obedient even to death on the crossand where He is, there also will His servant be. Yes, saints obeyed their superiors by accepting punishment (whippings, imprisonment, etc) for the fact that they would NOT stop publicizing the Truth. In the Summa, Aquinas explains that If the Faith is endangered a subject ought to rebuke his prelateeven publicly. It is when Rome itself speaks officially that the matter will be finished. HLM is the most exquisite display of the solid mystical theology of the Catholic Church. They lied about sexual abuse and covered it up. Please join us there, if you havent already. Therefore, only one person of the Holy Trinity has a heart. Lennon opens up with a note on his responsibility as the Ordinary of the place. This can become a very large problem to some folks to visit these sites, and trust in them, and can cause them to question themselves, their faith, and their church. In what way are you accusing Bishop Lennon of being heretical? She tells us that God wants us to focus on growing in self knowledge instead of probing others spiritual state. Remaining silent in the face of heresy is one way to be heretical. This is what The Wanderer said in response to my request for the citation: Thanks for your question, but The Wanderer is not indexed and we have no recollection of such a story, and so we cannot verify it for you.. Ive just read through 12 or so replies by 3221 commenter here and am astounded and saddened. Know your faith and follow yiur heart. Do you think these many unethical bishops in the Church todaythese ravenous wolves who control most of the operations of the NCCBare going to roll over and play dead when Pope Benedict XV1 goes Home to God? I have come to ask you some questions to help you to think like citizens of Heaven, not of earth..My brothers and sisters, you must not place OFFICE and AUTHORITY and TITLE above the TRUTH., I, your Eternal Father, call you here. Amen." Everyone must follow their conscience. God Bless Eric Jesus told us not t judge, did He not? Hate to disagree, but the Devil would indeed promote the Rosary if it gains him more than it loses him. They have the beautiful Rosary of the unborn. If your answer is that that will never happen, my next question to you is, What world are you living in? With good reason the Church is very slow to condemn apparitions and their messages as She knows that She just might be condemning the work of God. Mary you are so mixed up. Before I wrote my original article on Holy Love, I had called and talked with someone from the ministry. Veo que tienes un link para EWTN en su sitio primeraluz.org. Too often, if an alleged apparition is condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. I would advise you, as St Catherine of Siena was advised by God the Fathernot at HLM but in her Dialogues, which is a mystical classic of Catholicism, to keep your interior life within the circle of God and self-knowledge. Just wait and you will see. i believe there were over a hundred clergy in non holy relationships for many yrs and overlooked by whom.??? On 11 November 2009, Bishop Richard Lennon published a Letter to the clergy and laity of his Diocese, introducing a Decree, which declares that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian Faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland. Lets give everybody another dollop of your skewered thinking. El sitio rcspiritualdirection.com fue fundado por Dan Burke, quien trabaja para EWTN y es director ejecutivo del National Catholic Register (periodico de EWTN). She refused to recant that she was hearing voices directing her to do such and such. Elsewhere, in these responses, I posted The Wanderers response which was something to the effect that The Wanderer is not indexed but they could not recall such a story so they were unable to confirm that information. Primacy of conscience trumps blindly following disobedient bishops. You do realize, dont you, that this is exactly the same reasoning used by those who claim the right to reject certain teachings of the Church. I figured that the tens of thousands of pilgrims in Fatima who witnessed the spinning of the sun and had their soaked clothing dried in an instant when the Blessed Mother appeared as predicted had less to go on than we did. The language the bishop used is precisely the language of a condemnation. The Bishop of a diocese is not the last word on any apparition. I once read that people bring their own holiness to these sites. This is so sad that people run after these private revelations that bring some notoriety to a person in need, while the Fatima message is no longer preached. I love obedience, and without it no one can please me (Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary # 47). I admire your fortitude! It was a game changer for me. I just didnt see the word condemned in the citation I linked to. It is just that simple. Again, go back to your synagogue of satan. There is very little dealing with specifics, just continuous harping on Lenons decree.. You yourself are trying to be specific, but what you are doing is exhibiting your inability to think straight. The message here is so simple love God and neighbor as yourself.i thank God he gives us all our free will and pray from the bottom of my heart for wisdom and heavenly discernment for all. Instead of spending money and time on sites of questionable authenticity, I realize now that the best way to act radically for Christ is to receive Him every day at Mass and then to live His gospel message. Just come here out of love. Source: The Bishops subjects (you and me) are bound to obey him within the sphere of his authority. Are you actually claiming that the Bishop of his diocese has no authority to declare whether a place is operating within the Catholic faith? Your explanation proves absolutely nothing of substance. 5 You pray for any religious leader who does not speak out. As regarding any priests or Bishops who have been going to the site, do you suppose that Bishop Lennons words to them are vague and ambiguous also.forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries? God chose 12 men as disciples later to become priests. Would the devil be behind the formation of prayer groups? Then, of course, there is beautiful Joan of Arc who refused to disavow her voices when corrupt bishops commanded that she do so. What would the devil get out of the deal? Advertise on Catholic Exchange I stand (sit) corrected! The bishop has an obligation to pastor his people and protect and nourish their faith. If your not careful it will shake you out of the complacency and watered down Catholicism rampant in parish life today and turn you into a real on-fire Catholic!! I am spreading the Rosary of the Unborn around the country because I believe in it. It is through our free will that we either choose to cooperate with the grace that God offers us, or we choose to reject His grace. HLM is obedient to this request, and no masses are offeredat HLM. Youre actually using a theology professor at Notre Dame as an endorsement of an apparition site that has been condemned by a Bishop of the Catholic Church? I am fighting for my true Faith of which the bishops of this country are trying to rob me. Take what I said in all my responses to your points and show them to any theologically sound priest and you will find out that it all is clear Catholic doctrine. What of the many miracles and increased devotion so many experienced at the site? We do not use condemn so much nowadays and we owe the change of language to Pope John XXIII. attitude. If someone has come to this point, has no internal red flags upon hearing any of these messages, it follows that they wouldnt care what the Bishop has to say. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to The messages quoted by Jesus, Mary, and St. Joan of Arc seem to have really taken hold of this person (and so many others). The message do not sound like St. Aquinas. If Jesus were giving messages on all truth to individuals, the result would not be thousands of denominations going in different directions. We are free to heed it or not heed it, as it is not a formal canonical command to obedience. There are some seventy references to conscience in the Catechism and none of them affirm the primacy of the conscience, but repeatedly state that an authentic conscience is one that has been submitted to God, to the Gospel, and to the truth. In the end, the type of people who go to apparition sites are not necessarily nave or foolish. What is pointless and sad, Elizabeth? It is called bitterness. I just looked up in Aquinas Summa Theologica about obedience to bishops. I genuinely did believe that I was at a legitimate site and thus prayed earnestly. He speaks through His Church. Many bishops DO APPROVE and are actually involved in HLM. Ha! The Holy Love messages, as well as, the messages from Medjugorje helps us a lot. To be condemned CANONICALLY is an official act and there are no grounds for it so the bishopas much as he would like to, I am surecannot do so. If we do not cooperate with Gods Will through free will choice, we sin. I will pray for you also. None of these letters are dated after Bishop Lennons 2009 Letter. We are not bound to follow an admonishment. At that time, each priest, bishop, cardinal, pope. The fruits will show that this is from heaven and the good that comes out of it will yes, indeed, SAVE SOULS! We need all the help we can get now and may the author of this sad Bishop Lennon is not able to state the reason that he warns Catholics to stay away from HLM. i was a po in nyc many yrs ago. The silence they are effecting when they should proclaim loudly the teachings of the Church speaks clearly of the lack of support fo the Holy Father and his magisterium. In order to protect their souls. The remnant are not those necessarily following HLM, but rather those who follow the truths of the Catholic Church with a humble openness to God.If one is doing this, one does not necessarily need HLM to tell them what one already knows. God bless you all. And from our Lord himself on Nov. 13, 2009: My brothers and sisters, tonight confusion may have entered your hearts concerning certain statements from the diocese. No, John Leary, who claims to be receiving messages from Jesus, Mary and the saints, does not have Church approval. 3) Therefore, Sweeney-Kyle must obey the decision of the competent ecclesiastical authorities (remember, both Lennon and the Holy See were involved in this matter). Love your name!!!!!! The Bishops decree against the so-called apparitions at Bayside (Vernoica Leuken) never uses the word condemned. It says no credibility can be given. The bishop has an obligation to pastor his people and protect and nourish their faith. My argument did not win him over. I refer you to what I just shared with Elizabeth. In his decree of November 11, 2009 Bishop Lennon made it clear that because of a number of issues it was necessary to forbid priests to celebrate the sacraments at the site of the Holy Love shrine and that the faithful are admonished to cease gathering there. Period. I love it deeply, for it has led me to know God, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world so that I may be happy with Him in the next. He pledged to obey a church directive to dissolve the corporation. It brings an atmosphere that says, Trust God. it was a few years ago. There is nothing theologically erroneous in the messages you cited. 212 1. Protect me from any evil plan Satan may have for me today. St. Thomas insists that the virtue of obedience must be to the true Faith. You are all mixed up big time. religious sister and lay person will have to answer the question, Who am I serving? If you want to go to a site that is true, go to Fatima or the approved sites , but try to really discern what is true and not true. Her messages are all of holy love, and doing gods will. the Church still reserves judgement, as it has not officially condemned HLM. We have no affiliation with the Diocese of Cleveland. Cover me with the Precious Blood of Your Divine Son. It is all strictly the teaching of the Catholic Faith. While I was walking on the property not long ago I asked a priest from Nigera why so many priests from around the world are coming here. When in the history of the Catholic Church have approved apparitions consisted of a Blessed Mother going freestyle outside the Church? (Of course I guess Im defending myself here, too.) If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. Bishops are charged with the task of investigating and pronouncing on alleged apparitions. Holy Love Ministry Messages by Topic. Our free will is a powerful gift from God. Yes, all are encouraged to pray it and I know an Episcopalian minister who used to pray it, to her credit; but, it is a Catholic prayer. Has he checked their theological content? How about this one from St. Thomas Aquinas on Nov. 17, 2009, after the condemnation: The decree set forth by your bishop concerning participation in this Mission here was presented as though it carried with it the charge of blind obedience. It matches all the traditional criteria for condemnation. They were also there in Christs day. Have a nice day,Harr. Such people will not be attracted to obvious evil. But thats neither here nor there. Peace be with you! Trueand why should anyone obey Peter either, since He denied Christ three times? But there is a dark side to acting on messages that Church authority warns against. Again, Catholic obedience must always be to the Faith. He would be remiss if he didnt pronounce on Holy Love Ministries activity. Our free will gives us the power to allow grace to flow into us THROUGH Mary, or prevent that grace from flowing into us THROUGH Mary. And, yes, Clevelands Bishop Lennon closed a number of churches and had to reverse some/all. You have the document that proves condemnation. Bigger trials are coming in the future, Patti. Give me examples of WHERE I am not keeping my argument in order. Very informative. The roads to hell are paved wit their skulls, according to St.Philip Neri. Clothe me in Your Divine Will. After the Bishops decree, I felt compelled to appeal to all Holy Love followers, to accept the fact that the Church has the authority to condemn this site. It was indeed not the last word about Medjugorie. But, it is good to dissect their techniques and arguments. No. [I marvel at the protection of the (created and uncreated) Immaculate Conception!]. Dont get caught up in the politics. Most of the people who attend Mass now are elderly. Bishop Lennons is not the last word about HLM either. Apparitions at Holy Love Ministries Revisited. While you are diddling with proper canonical procedure about apparition sites, the Faith will be completely lost. The Bishop explicitly states HLMs claims to be not supernatural in origin. Your interpretations of HLM messages are very confused and you exhibit grave misunderstandings of Catholic theology. Copyright 2023 Catholic Exchange. Now the whole purpose of going to HLM is predicated upon the belief the claims come from God. Read all about it in The Rite The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio. This is the man whose discernment about Holy Love ministries you want me to trust? Certainly not. ps. Gracias Carlos! Please ponder these words of Jesus to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque after she explained to Him that she did not do something that He had asked of her because her Superior forbid it: Therefore not only do I desire that you should do what your Superior commands, but also that you should do nothing of all that I order without their consent. "So you see how all the parts make up a pro-life rosary .". After all, He is the one who founded the Church and gave it authority. "Heavenly Father, today, I surrender to You my heart. It is through this door every grace and virtue flows from the Heart of My Holy Mother. This is contrary to our faith. You do not disturb mine at all. I dont use my emotions to discern. How could all these good fruits not be from God? Visions are not like sacraments, which produce their effect by their own power (that is, the power of Christ working through them) in those who do not place an obstacle. Doing so is not leading souls away from salvation, as some suggested. In November of 2006, I wrote an article exposing the Holy Love site (reproduced below). Unless Pope Benedict XVI overrules Bishop Lennon on the matter of Holy Love, we are bound to obedience. The devil can be there, too. I know my Catholic faith. Disorder will spread everywhere and many consecrated will walk like the blind leading the blind. Baloney and more. @LizEst:disqus, I was referring to the form of the document. Its interesting to read some of the defenders and their circular logic. It is like the fruit put into the basket of love and humility. Try Eucharistic adoration (its the same Eucharist everywhere), praying the Liturgy of the Hours, or spending a few minutes every morning in contemplation of Scripture. Most of the ones that I know now reject it. Sister Adele cautioned the Bishop that he would be responsible for the souls lost due to the lack of proper religious instruction. But she obeyed the Bishops command. Yes, LizEst! . 214 The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescripts of their own rite approved by the legitimate pastors of the Church and to follow their own form of spiritual life so long as it is consonant with the doctrine As far as being angry or bitter, as I have said, we see in others what we ourselves are. It has never been the Churchs position that free will keeps a soul from holiness.
Dominican Volleyball Roster,
Land For Sale By Owner In Sevier County Tennessee,
Articles H